"I send greetings to the many Muslims observing Ramadan in America and around the world.Surely, I cannot be the only one sickened by these goodwill wishes to the Muslim Ummah in the US and throughout the world? Not only do I find this message sickening, but also I find it weak and cowardly! It is also offensive, because such goodwill messages are never reciprocated. Has the West already become the slave of the Islamic world?
Ramadan is the holiest time of the Muslim year and an important holiday when Muslims take time for prayer, fasting, and personal sacrifice. According to Islamic teachings, this month represents when God delivered His word to the prophet Muhammad in the form of the Qur'an. Ramadan is also an opportunity to gather with friends and family and show thanks for God's blessings through works of charity.
Ramadan and the upcoming holiday seasons are a good time to remember the common values that bind us together. Our society is enriched by our Muslim citizens whose commitment to faith reminds us of the gift of religious freedom in our country.
Laura and I send our best wishes for a blessed Ramadan. Ramadan Mubarak." - GEORGE W. BUSH
With each passing day, President George W Bush shows himself to be weak and growing ever weaker; indeed, in my opinion, he is too weak to be the leader of the free world at this critical time. After 9/11, he gave the impression that he was going to be the political ‘saviour’ of the free and democratic West, for he talked tough. But as the years have passed, we have seen that he has grown weaker rather than stronger.
Can you imagine Churchill issuing such a statement of goodwill to the Nazis during the Second World War? Imagine it! It would have been unthinkable! Winston Churchill was strong, and he had principle. He was no pussycat. He fought the Second World War with one thing in mind: Victory!
“I would say to the House, as I said to those who have joined this government: I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.This, Mr Bush, is the way to win wars! Not by sending wishes of goodwill to our enemy!
We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Let that be realized … (To listen to the speech in all its glory, click HERE)
Doesn’t the President of the United States of America realize that the West is engaged in a war to the death? Doesn’t he realize that such messages of goodwill, especially when they are never reciprocated, will do nothing but appease and embolden the enemy? Doesn’t he realize the nature of the enemy he is dealing with? Doesn’t he realize that Muslims, and Arabs in particular, view such gestures of goodwill as a sign of great weakness? Doesn’t he realize that the war cannot be won this way?
Click here to listen to how Churchill might have reacted:
This was their finest hour
To start with, let him tell us how “our society is enriched by our Muslim citizens whose commitment to faith reminds us of the gift of religious freedom in our country”. What the hell is he talking about? How do these people enrich our society? As far as I can see, all they do is impoverish it! Only in the past days, it has come to light that an opera, Mozart’s Idomeneo, has been cancelled in Berlin because it might offend Muslims. Two weeks ago, Pope Benedict XVI came under fire for his quotation of the emperor Palaeologos. Earlier in the year, we saw the furore caused by Muslims throughout the world when a few measly cartoons were published in Denmark. And you, Mr President, have got the unmitigated gall to say that Muslims enrich life here in the West. This is a lie. A damn lie, too! They do nothing but impoverish it! And the longer they stay in the West, and the stronger they become, the more impoverished life will be for us all. Moreover, how the hell do you think that Muslims living in the West can possibly remind us of the gift of religious freedom in the US? Of all people, Muslims do not understand the concept of religious freedom. In Muslim countries, people are put to death for converting out of the faith of Islam. Where’s the commitment to religious freedom in that? Don’t you realize that in each and every country that Islam has ever entered, and where it has been allowed to put down roots, that it has eventually taken over, and snuffed out all vestiges of freedom. Look at the evidence: Egypt, Libya, the Lebanon, Syria - these were all once Christian countries! The ultimate aim of all Muslims, Mr President, is not democracy and freedom, but theocracy and totalitarianism.
From what I can see, these goodwill wishes are an exercise in A-licking! Brown-nosing! Call it what you will! With such utterances, you show the Muslim world, and the rest of us, just how weak you are! Weak and craven and cowardly!
You seem to believe with your sophistry that you will somehow be able to change the nature of Muslims and Islam. You seem to believe that you will tame the lion by calling the lion 'a good boy'. You won’t. Be sure of that! The roaring lion that is Islam has never been tamed, and nor will it ever be. This lion can only be slain!
You, Mr President, made a fatal error of judgment the day after 9/11. Probably out of cowardice, you failed to identify the enemy to the citizens of the USA and the world. You had your chance, and you blew it. You should have stated that while, hitherto, America had not been at war with Islam, it is clear now that Islam is at war with your country. That, Mr President, was your first grave error. You should then have asked the citizens of your fine nation for their co-operation and unity. You should have stated that in order to win this war being waged against your country, you would need everyone to pull all the stops out, and to be prepared to sacrifice for the cause of eventual victory.
Further, you should have drawn together all sides in Congress, the right, the centre, and the left, in order to build a government of national unity. In time war, there is no room for divisions between left and right. War is the time when the people need to put aside their political differences in the cause of the war effort.
Furthermore, the people should have been asked to tighten their belts, and war bonds should have been issued to help finance the war ahead. No war was ever won without the sacrifice of the people. This sacrifice also includes the sacrifice of rights such as the right to sue others because of criticism. All those things, manifestations of life in a free and peaceful world, should have been suspended for the duration of the war.
During World War II, Japanese people living in the US at that time were interned. Likewise, Muslim people living in the US post-9/11 should also have been interned. You cannot wage a war with a fifth column spread across the nation. It is just not possible. You, Mr President, might say that it is not just to punish the majority for the sins of the extreme minority. I would say to you, Mr President, that it is always the case in this life that the majority has to pay for the sins of the minority. This is the nature of life, as unfair as it may be.
Because of the way you have tried to wage this war, because you have tried to wage this war on the defensive, Islam in the West has actually gained in strength since the attack on 9/11. Now the average person in the street doesn’t know what to believe. Their leaders are stating that Islam is really a “religion of peace” which has been “distorted” by the likes of the members of Al-Qaeda which, of course, is balderdash; and yet the news, despite the concealing distemper painted on it by the MSM, shows them that Islam is belligerent and malign, and that it is growing apace here in the West. Naturally, this disturbs many, many people.
All this has come about because you, Mr President, and your incompetent administration, have refused to look truth in the face. This is no way to wage a war, Mr President. This is no way to win this war, Mr President. This is no way to victory, Mr President! You are engaged in mendacity, prevarication, and sophistry. Historians will not be kind to you for enabling the enemy to take away our freedom and democracy. Shame on you!
©Mark Alexander
81 comments:
Mark, This is one of your very finest posts -- ever! It 'hits the bullseye' and 'touches the free world's central nerve', in short, you tell the pure, unvarnished truth. I am printing it so that I can send it to the White House, the Republican Party and local senators and representatives. Thank you for you eloquent statement of the reality that faces us in this hour and this day. I would vote for you for president. BRILLIANT AND SPOT ON!
Mark - As was Jimmy Carter, the worst president of the modern era, George W. Bush is a Born-Again-Christian, not the kind of individual that has the ruthlessness to do what is necessary to win a war. Unfortunately he and many others prosecuting this war are encumbered by the "just war theory" that prevents them from going to the next level...and the enemy knows it because many have been afforded a Western education and some have attended the U.S. War College or have received instruction by American "advisors".
We don't want to lose and we refuse to submit to Islam -- thus, someone will have to take the plunge and drag the Peacniks and nay-sayers into a real war.
Oh yes, I forgot to say that this statement of President Bush is just plain horse manure (ala Harry Truman). Further, what in the world is he doing in the second paragraph explaining Ramadan? Muslims know what Ramadan is and non-Muslims, including myself, don't give a damn. Let the wretches observe what they want to observe, but please Mr. President stop trying to dignify or legitimize it and especially stop trying to stuff it down the throat of civilized people..
USIP:
... what in the world is he doing in the second paragraph explaining Ramadan? Muslims know what Ramadan is and non-Muslims, including myself, don't give a damn. Let the wretches observe what they want to observe, but please Mr. President stop trying to dignify or legitimize it and especially stop trying to stuff it down the throat of civilized people ...
It's enough to make any sane person want to puke! GWB - what a joke!
President Bush is either dissembling or is under a powerful delusion regarding Islam. He is not alone. The people that blindly worship at the alter of diversity in the US, UN, and the EU are under the same delusion. I am surprised that a world leader that so strongly started the fight is finishing so weak. But, we are in very interesting times. The mounting tide of Islamic invasion into the west is open for all to see, yet the world seems to shrug. How can we keep moving forward with our current mindset and win? Muslims will continue the ever increasing invasion. All of them long for a worldwide Islamic state brought about by forceful means if necessary. Europe in consistently bowing to the Islamists in policy and law enforcement. European law enforcement appease due to fear of backlash and riots. We, the bloggers, are all to aware of the problems facing Western Civilization. The question is: how can we unite and move this debate into the mainstream. Until the West collectively recognizes the growing danger in its midst, the Islamists will keep coming, growing, and forcing submission.
I am not certain what the author of 2 Thessalonians meant, however, the following quote seems to apply to today's mindset in the West: "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie."
Bubba's Pravda
bubbaspravda.blogspot.com
Mark, another great essay, right on the money. I guess the constant barrage from the media is having its affect on GWB. The world is about to go up in flames, and nobody wants to be known as the spark that set it off; well, guess what, its going to go up anyway, and in large part because of those who will not face the reality of the current division of ideologies. Radical Islam is just the front for all of Islam. How many more obfuscations and apologetics, how many more sermons of false piety, immediately followed by the ubiquitous 'but', before people really get the message: just how dim can people be, extremely so it would appear.
To be honest, I think that we are fooling ourselves if we believe that we are anything but a small minority who understand the threat, for far too many simply don't understand, and though troubled by events, really would wish fot the problem to go away, or at least someone else take care of it for them, and oh, by the way, do it nicely. None of this harshness and brutality shit, that just disturbs the superior moral perceptions that so many hold so dear, no matter that that superior morality only ends up enabling the the real barbarian savagry that will destroy all, for that is inconsequential, it is the reaction to that savagry that offends the righteous fools, for in some sick and perverse way, it validates their nihilistic perception of their own self worth, but then, if you havn't much to be proud of in yourself to start with, then any port in a storm will do I guess.
There really are forces within the west that wish for us to fail. Then again, if you consider that many revisionist historians in the west, think that the fall of Rome to the barbarian invaders was not really a catastrophe of the first magnitude, but rather the transition of control from one worn out philosophy to a new and more vibrant and more deserving philosophy, sort of "radical man, viva la revolution man", or put another way, the Beavis and Butthead approach to human understanding. The fire and passion of youthful angst set to serve the courses of putrid solipism, and in many cases, not so youthfull. Then again, what can you expect from a bunch of Utopians, awash in the fallacy of 'social justice, but only for me, not for thee', bacause of course, only the truly faithfull can be trusted with power and authority. I truly dispise the 50s /60s generation for the total dysfunctionality it has foisted upon the world; we are going to have to pay dearly for their foolishness.
When, oh when will politicains grow up and realise that with great power comes great responsibility, and unfortunately this often means you will not be liked and adored by an ungrateful, largely ignorant populace. The smiling Bubba approach to political legacy is not good politics, merely the true road to perdition The political divide within the west is now so corroded that we are in danger of exactly what George Washington warned us of in his farewell address, that the populace will tire of this factionalism and seek repose in a power that will promise resolution but in reality only destroy civil liberty as it arrogates power to itself and only itself. I am beginning to think that Marie Anttionette's (sp?) fascetious comment, "let them eat cake" was really not so far from the mark. The modern blinkered world is fast descending towards its true spiritual home, the world of the barbaric! It's just a shame thet they have to drag the rest of us with them.
To get back on topic, George Bush is definately no leader of men, in fact, nowhere in the west are there any real leaders, people who can insipre and enervate the spirit of man, to aspire to his own potential. Far too much of what passes for politics today is nothing short of ego in search of gratification.
Bush leads the pack in my list of shame. I voted for the guy at the time (there was no way I'd want Gore or Kerry in office) but let's face it, they'd be doing worse than Bush. Hussein would still be in power and bin Laden never caught.
Your blog, however, is a landmark. It clearly says everything that I've known about Bush. Bush is the sole reason why the Republicans are losing ground in both House and Senate.
USIP:
Mark, This is one of your very finest posts -- ever! It 'hits the bullseye' and 'touches the free world's central nerve', in short, you tell the pure, unvarnished truth.
Thank you so much. Compliment much appreciated.
I am printing it so that I can send it to the White House, the Republican Party and local senators and representatives. Thank you for you eloquent statement of the reality that faces us in this hour and this day.
Please try and ensure GWB himself reads it, not just one of his minions!
I would vote for you for president. BRILLIANT AND SPOT ON!
THANK YOU AGAIN! WOW! IMAGINE THAT! Trouble is, I don't think I'd qualify. I'm a Brit, remember. They'd have to change the rules. Even old Schwarzenegger can't run for president under current rules. Nice thought, though, I must say.
Eleanor:
Mark - As was Jimmy Carter, the worst president of the modern era, George W. Bush is a Born-Again-Christian, not the kind of individual that has the ruthlessness to do what is necessary to win a war.
I agree. GWB is as soft as putty. You have to be absolutely ruthless to win a war. And that's a fact. To start with, you have to be able to go to bed at night in the knowledge that innocent people are being killed too, and you have to be able to cope with that. GWB doesn't have what it takes.
Unfortunately he and many others prosecuting this war are encumbered by the "just war theory" that prevents them from going to the next level...and the enemy knows it because many have been afforded a Western education and some have attended the U.S. War College or have received instruction by American "advisors".
All that "Just War" codswallop! War is war! If one is in a war, one should be in it to win it; otherwise, one shouldn't be in it at all. 'All is fair in love and war', is what they say. And how true it is. War cannot be sanitized, especially if one wants to win it.
We don't want to lose and we refuse to submit to Islam -- thus, someone will have to take the plunge and drag the Peacniks and nay-sayers into a real war.
Yes, but who is that going to be?
USIP:
... what in the world is he doing in the second paragraph explaining Ramadan?
You tell me! He's trying to show the Islamic world that he knows and understands Islam, I suppose.
Muslims know what Ramadan is and non-Muslims, including myself, don't give a damn. Let the wretches observe what they want to observe, but please Mr. President stop trying to dignify or legitimize it and especially stop trying to stuff it down the throat of civilized people..
I couldn't have said it better myself. I think the President has come over as being soft and stupid. He has cheapened himself, and cheapened the nation with him!
Oh, by the way, USIP, I forgot to add: Where's his pride and dignity?
Bubba's Pravda:
President Bush is either dissembling or is under a powerful delusion regarding Islam.
He's under a spell, I think!
He is not alone. The people that blindly worship at the alter of diversity in the US, UN, and the EU are under the same delusion.
Yes, they're in the majority, it seems. By the way, the next logical step to worshipping diversity might well be Islam, because it preaches all in the Ummah are one's "brothers and sisters in Islam'! Now that's a frightening thought, isn't it?
I am surprised that a world leader that so strongly started the fight is finishing so weak. But, we are in very interesting times.
Yes, very interesting and VERY dangerous!
JudahQ:
This is just staggeringly unbelievable!
I wonder how many Christmas cards will be sent to the White House from mosques all over the country in a couple of months?
Big joke! Hell will freeze over first! Imagine the King of Saudi Arabia, the Keeper of the Two Holy Mosques, issuing an equivalent message of goodwill to all Christians at Christmas! If one works in Saudi Arabia in the Christmas season, an official announcement is usually made that Christmas "will not be celebrated". Shopkeepers, who often look forward to the increased trade from the expats working there, sometimes put up Christmas decorations. But they are usually soon ordered to take them down again by the religious police, or Muttawa.
We, the bloggers, are all to aware of the problems facing Western Civilization. The question is: how can we unite and move this debate into the mainstream. Until the West collectively recognizes the growing danger in its midst, the Islamists will keep coming, growing, and forcing submission.
That's a very good question.
I long to see huge headlines in our daily papers with the truth from the blogosphere printed for all to see, and given credence and legitimacy instead of being forever regarded as nothing but uninformed amateurs mouthing off into the emptiness of cyberspace.
I think that what many bloggers have to say on the subject is often far more relevant than what the MSM have to say. Try getting an email or letter published with our kind of view on this. You will find it is soon rejected. The MSM have lost much of their credibility, in my humble opinion.
That's the problem - bloggers are not considered credible. Many are not, but nor are many journalists whose stories are published in the newspapers, and we know bloggers who are far more aware of the truth and should have it heard.
*** sigh! ***
They may not consider us credible, but blogging is a growing movement; and we cannot be ignored. And they know it.
George Mason:
Mark,
{This preamble has nothing to do with the content of my comments, but it is to alert you to how hard it is to access and publish comments on your site. I suspect the problem originates with Google. The system is the slowest I have ever seen it, taking several "refresh" clicks to bring up the comments. And Google has made some deleterious changes in commenting, making it bloody hard to sign in to comment unless you have some sort of Blogger credential. Others may be discouraged by all this stuff from Google. Please erase this portion of the comment if you like; it was meant solely for you.}
I am sorry that you have had such difficulties. I think the problem lies with Blogger itself, since I, too, had terrible problems yesterday trying to post a blog. It laboured and laboured and laboured at times. Blogger was probably having server problems.
The "blogger credential" aspect rests with my blog. That's all my fault, I'm sorry, because I have switched off the acceptance of anonymous comments. The reason: It was confusing me! At one point last week, I seemed to be getting ever more anonymous comments, and I didn't know whom I was answering. As it is relatively easy to register a fictitious name, I don't see the point of them. Further, I think it's much better to have a name, even if that name is fictitious and amusing.
This is truly one of your best, and that goes a long way, given how well you think and write!
Thank you so much, George. I appreciate that.
Reading it brought a fantasy to mind. I felt like someone chained to the mast of a wooden man-of-war ship that is sinking. The ship fails to fit the needs of war, yet I, as symbol of Americans and the best of the West, can do nothing but be swept up into the impending annihilation.
It seems like that, doesn't it? Islamization sometimes seems like an unstoppable force. Of course, it is stoppable; but it takes dedication and ruthlessness.
You have spelled out all of the key elements of the profound immorality of this entire administration, lead by the Yale Cowboy. I cannot tell if America and the West will make it through this ordeal or not, and at age 66, I probably won't see the outcome. Nevertheless, I can predict with 100% certainty that if the present course continues unabated, we will lose all we have and likely may be subjugated to Islam.
Yes, this course MUST be changed. The thought of the Islamization of the West is enough to make any sane person shudder!
As bad as Bush is, and he IS REALLY BAD, he is attempting to fight two wars: One with Islam, without naming it, of course; and, the other is the destructive fifth column within America and Europe, including England, I am so sorry to have to say.
Yes, he is. But he should have named the enemy from day one, and demonized it. If the whole nation had been placed on a proper war footing, and the Muslims in our midst interned, then the second problem would have been greatly minimized.
I know what to do. You know, and so do the people who are likely to read your blogsite. If we could trephine George Bush's head and pour in your essay, we might have a chance. But this man is beyond hope. Eleanor certainly got it right in her comment.
The use of the technique of trephining is an interesting one indeed! :-) What an amusing thought! I don't think it would work on GWB somehow. I think he is past the point of redemption.
Eleanor did indeed get it right. She always does.
At the risk of offending those who are religious, I must state that I will never vote again for a president who is seriously religious. If he or she goes beyond the usual religious hypocrisy, then he or she is not suitable for the White House. This is the "penny" in George Bush's "fusebox." He cannot overcome it, and it is killing us!
No need to apologize. I understand where you are coming from. Absolutely.
Just Another Richard:
Mark, another great essay, right on the money.
Very many thanks, JAR.
Radical Islam is just the front for all of Islam. How many more obfuscations and apologetics, how many more sermons of false piety, immediately followed by the ubiquitous 'but', before people really get the message: just how dim can people be, extremely so it would appear.
Yes, just how dim can people really be? You've got that right!
To be honest, I think that we are fooling ourselves if we believe that we are anything but a small minority who understand the threat, for far too many simply don't understand, and though troubled by events, really would wish fot the problem to go away, or at least someone else take care of it for them, and oh, by the way, do it nicely. None of this harshness and brutality shit, that just disturbs the superior moral perceptions that so many hold so dear, no matter that that superior morality only ends up enabling the the real barbarian savagry that will destroy all, for that is inconsequential, it is the reaction to that savagry that offends the righteous fools, for in some sick and perverse way, it validates their nihilistic perception of their own self worth, but then, if you havn't much to be proud of in yourself to start with, then any port in a storm will do I guess.
People are very good at fooling themselves. People kid themselves all the time about all kinds of things. The problem here is the gravity of what they're kidding themselves about. Our very survival depends on understanding, and coming to grips with, this problem, as WE all know.
There really are forces within the west that wish for us to fail. Then again, if you consider that many revisionist historians in the west, think that the fall of Rome to the barbarian invaders was not really a catastrophe of the first magnitude, but rather the transition of control from one worn out philosophy to a new and more vibrant and more deserving philosophy, sort of "radical man, viva la revolution man", or put another way, the Beavis and Butthead approach to human understanding.
Yes. This point is very interesting. I was speaking to an educated man recently - a medical doctor - about the problem of increasing Islamization. He told me that society changes and evolves all the time. It always has. Maybe being Muslim is the next stage! I was staggered by such an attitude to life. That man has never lived in a Muslim country such as Saudi Arabia, I can tell you; otherwise, he wouldn't have spoken like that. But I think his attitude sums up the attitude of many in the West these days. They take an "it's inevitable" appraoch to life, and don't seem to think the fight is worth it. Frightening, isn't it?
Then again, what can you expect from a bunch of Utopians, awash in the fallacy of 'social justice, but only for me, not for thee', bacause of course, only the truly faithfull can be trusted with power and authority. I truly dispise the 50s /60s generation for the total dysfunctionality it has foisted upon the world; we are going to have to pay dearly for their foolishness.
Couldn't agree with you more.
When, oh when will politicains grow up and realise that with great power comes great responsibility, and unfortunately this often means you will not be liked and adored by an ungrateful, largely ignorant populace.
Yes, but JAR: All politicians want to be popular these days. Doing things to gain popularity is so often deemed more important than doing things which are right and needed.
To get back on topic, George Bush is definately no leader of men, in fact, nowhere in the west are there any real leaders, people who can insipre and enervate the spirit of man, to aspire to his own potential. Far too much of what passes for politics today is nothing short of ego in search of gratification.
Leadership qualities are rare to find at any time; but more especially these days, it would seem. As you say: These days politicians want the money and the power and the glory, but they don't want to be unpopular; and they certainly don't want to take the tough decisions.
Steve:
Bush leads the pack in my list of shame. I voted for the guy at the time (there was no way I'd want Gore or Kerry in office) but let's face it, they'd be doing worse than Bush. Hussein would still be in power and bin Laden never caught.
Was taking out Saddam Hussein really such a smart idea? In doing so, we have upset the balance of power in the Middle East, and we have made Iran strong(er) by default. Not a very smart move at all. Perhaps we should have brought Saddam on-side instead. At least he was no religious nut.
Yes, he killed people brutally, such as in Halabja, but look how many people have been brutally killed since he has been deposed. Are the Iraqis really any better off? I think that we might be deluding ourselves on this point.
Your blog, however, is a landmark. It clearly says everything that I've known about Bush. Bush is the sole reason why the Republicans are losing ground in both House and Senate.
Glad to hear it. You're always welcome, Steve.
Mark,
So many excellent points in this essay! At the moment, I have time to address only two (not necessarily the most important ones, but the ones which launched me on first reading)....
1. GWB: this month represents when God delivered His word to the prophet Muhammad in the form of the Qur'an
No way is Allah the same God I worship! I deeply resent--"resent" is not strong enough--GWB's equating the moon god with the Christian God.
2. Only in the past days, it has come to light that an opera, Mozart’s Idomeneo, has been cancelled in Berlin because it might offend Muslims.
Ramadan offends me and other Christians, so why don't we see Ramadan cancelled? The traditions of Ramadan are associated with subjugation by the sword. From THIS SOURCE:
Battle Of Badr: 17th Ramadan 2 AH- Was the first battle fought by Muslims after their migration to Medina against the Meccans. The battle ended in a victory for the 313 Muslims participating in the war over whelming around 1000 Meccans.
In other words, the making of Islam completely militant!
Besides, if Muzzies don't like Mozart's opera, nobody is forcing them to attend the concerts. I don't attend Muslim events and celebrations, so they can stay the hell home from events which I enjoy.
How long before Muzzies find offensive the celebration of Easter, the most important day on the Christian calendar?
From THIS SOURCE:
CAIR's Michigan chapter said Tuesday its representatives wanted to meet with Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-MI, over what it called his use of "polarizing language" on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives.
CAIR said that McCotter had used the term "jihadist-fascist" while discussing U.S. policy in Iraq in a House debate....
...President George W. Bush had stopped using the term "Islamic fascist" after Muslims in America and around the world had protested that it was ill-defined and counterproductive in persuading people in the global conflict against terror.
I can't think of any comment for polite company!
I join the chorus of applause for your insightful and inspirational post.
Thank you, Paracelsus. Compliment much appreciated.
The time WILL come when we shall face the problems head on.
We're leaving things a bit late. That's the problem. Germany is on the brink of giving official status to Islam! See my link to Always above.
Excellent post...I went to Wickepedia and they have a list of wars/battles started by Muslims during Ramadan. It's quite extensive and I'm not going to monopolize your comments section but I thought it was enlightening.
Far from being a holy month, Ramadan is more a month of war.
Mark,
I just checked that link you left for me. I nearly gagged when I read it, especially the final paragraph:
A message to accept Islam as an official religion such as Christianity and Judaism is expected to be given at the summit.
Western civilization is committing suicide!
American Crusader:
Excellent post
I'm glad you like it.
...I went to Wickepedia and they have a list of wars/battles started by Muslims during Ramadan. It's quite extensive and I'm not going to monopolize your comments section but I thought it was enlightening.
I think that this must be the list you're referring to: List of battles fought during Ramadan by Muslims
Far from being a holy month, Ramadan is more a month of war.
It would seem so, wouldn't it?
By the way, AC, are you feeling better now? Are you fully recovered yet? I do hope you are.
Always:
Western civilization is committing suicide!
It would seem so. Whenever I read things like that, my heart sinks!
Lovely essay, Mark. Perhaps jaundiced by just having returned from holiday in a catholic country and being overwhelmed by the idolatry, polytheism and excess inherent in that religion I ask: how can a "turn the other cheek" belief system win in the end? How can Christianity with its built-in immorality and shameful history make a stand?
The views of GWB are partly a result of this moral and historical bewilderment.
Rockmother:
Welcome back! Your presence has been sorely missed! I guessed that you must have been on vacation.
Lovely essay, Mark.
I'm so glad you like it.
Perhaps jaundiced by just having returned from holiday in a catholic country and being overwhelmed by the idolatry, polytheism and excess inherent in that religion...
I think you need to rest a little while longer! "Polytheism"? "Idolatry"? "Excess"? Christianity is not polytheistic! Not at all! The Trinity represents the three aspects of the ONE true God. It sounds to me as though you have come under the spell of some Muslims somewhere!
The excesses you write of are probably the ornamentations of the churches and cathedrals you visited, built in an elaborate style to celebrate the glory of God.
...I ask: how can a "turn the other cheek" belief system win in the end?
I agree with you here. Too much is made of the "turn the other cheek" approach. Jesus didn't require Christians to "turn the other cheek" when the religion is under attack from without; on the contrary, Christians are supposed to fight for their religion to thwart the enemy, and ensure that no false prophet comes after Jesus!
How can Christianity with its built-in immorality and shameful history make a stand?
I can't believe that you are asking this question! Where is the "built-in immorality" in Christianity? Where, I ask you? Fallen Christians may be immoral, but the religion of Christianity most certainly is not.
As for Christian history being shameful, well, what can I say other than this is a myth. A big myth, too!
The views of GWB are partly a result of this moral and historical bewilderment.
No comment.
Rockmother, I agree with you that this is a superb essay, but don't follow your assertions about Christianity:
Perhaps [I am] jaundiced by just having returned from holiday in a catholic country and being overwhelmed by the idolatry, polytheism and excess inherent in that religion
Frankly, I don't know what you mean by "idolotry, polytheism and excess[es]"'." I know of no such things in Christianity. Please explain.
Rockmother,
How can Christianity with its built-in immorality and shameful history make a stand?
How is the immorality "built-in"? As Mark put it, Fallen Christians may be immoral, but the religion of Christianity most certainly is not.
As I see it, the "shameful history" of Christianity stemmed from either perverting the teachings or from the human quest for power. In fact, most of Christianity's "shameful history" came about when the church and the state were one unit. The same happened with other religions which unified the state and organized religion; Islam, of course, has that unity inherent in its teachings. Militant Islam is the real deal; it is compartamentalized, secular Islam (moderates) which is the perversion, a huge improvement over the real deal.
Christians would also do well to remember that Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." Nevertheless, the moral code of Christianity is inextricably tied with Western culture, the champion of individual freedoms (See Oriana Fallaci). But remembering that separation of kingdoms should not--must not--mean allowing Islam to become the dominant movement.
As to "turn the other cheek," the application thereof relates to everyday interpersonal relations, not to nations.
You mentioned polytheism and idolatry. I am not Roman Catholic, so I never give the appearance of praying to images, nor do I believe that the saints intercede for me. As I interpret the Bible, Jesus is the high priest and does the interceding. I'm not sure how Catholics view those matters.
The views of GWB are partly a result of this moral and historical bewilderment.
As far as I can tell, GWB believes that ALL religions speak to the good in mankind. He's wrong!
One more thing...Christians might tell an atheist that he/she will go to hell, but they won't behead the atheist.
Professor Dr Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis:
Benedictus XVI may not be right, but today's Muslims are islamically wrong!
Less than a year after the deplorable 'Cartoons War', a false debate is reproduced in front of a multi-confused international community. The wrong question is: "Did Benedictus XVI insult Islam and Muslims?" The correct question is: "Are today's Muslims entitled to protest, and to what extent can they be taken as the true 'custodians' of the system preached before 14 centuries by Prophet Muhammad?"
It is refreshing to read such words from a Muslim!
Written by a Muslim, this protestation against the disreputable representatives of modern Muslim countries and against their pathetic attitude as regards Pope Benedictus' references to Manuel Paleologus may give to Western readership an insightful of the tyrannized societies of Islamic Terror. Few can protest, when Fear reigns and misinformation matches with detrimental lack of education and culture, behavioural barbarism, and political intolerance. Few Muslims live in (and therefore can appreciate) democratic societies in which reference to does not necessarily imply acceptance of someone.
Again, this is refreshing to read.
Pathetic Muslim ignorance of Manuel Paleologus
Yes, but don't the street people protest even though they know very little about what they are protesting?
This is the point to start with. Before speaking about the Pope's excerpts, idiots and quasi-illiterate politicians of the misery and the most immoral hypocrisy, like the Turk Salih Kapusuz, deputy leader of Premier Erdogan's party, and the Egyptian Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the Egyptian Foreign Minister, should have studied for an hour or two who Manuel Paleologus was. In Turkey there are specialized Byzantinists, so the task would be easier for the former: just ask before saying idiocies.
No, the motto today is 'protest first, ask questions later!
The latter should first remember that there are no Egyptian specialists in Byzantium (except those who got in the West a title "bon pour l' Orient", and work as taxi drivers in Cairo because of the economic failure of the successive dysfunctional governments of the Mubarak presidency); Aboul Gheit should remember that more than half of the population of the country he represents are miserable analphabets, plus that for about a century Western Egyptologists faced the threats of the semi-barbaric sheikhs of Egypt who did not wish to allow excavations to be carried out and ancient temples to be unearthed. Under such a heavy burden, About Gheit should present apologies for daring to comment.
Such protests usually come from illiterate people. This is true the whole world over.
Christian Orthodox, the Eastern Roman Emperor Manuel Paleologus reigned after the Latin rule of Constantinople; in his time the Eastern Roman hatred against the Pope of Rome had reached culmination after the two schisms, in 863 and (definite) 1054, had divided Christianity into Orthodox in the East and Catholic in the West. It is interesting to remember that Patriarch Michael Kherularius confiscated immediately all Latin properties in the Eastern Roman Empire in 1054 immediately after July 16, when three Roman legates entered Aghia Sophia church during mass on Saturday afternoon and placed the papal Bull of Excommunication on the Aghia Trapeza (the altar).
I bow to your superior knowledge of the details.
Manuel II Paleologus lived 300 years after the schism and 100 years after the Eastern Roman liberation from the Crusaders, who reproached for treachery invaded Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade (1204), instead of just crossing the land to reach Jerusalem. The Roman envy for the New Rome – Constantinople was running high for centuries, even before the days of Pope Nicholas I, who anathematized Patriarch Photius in 863!
At the times of Manuel Paleologus, little could save the ailing Eastern Roman Empire from falling to the Ottoman sultanate (this happened indeed 30 years after the Emperor died); it is also useful to remember that at those days the Eastern Roman, in their majority Greek speaking, populations were politically divided into two groups: the pro-Latins, who thought the Pope would mobilize Western Europeans armies to save Constantinople, and the pro-Ottomans, who knew that the Pope's worst enemy was not Islam but Christian Orthodoxy, and that for this reason help would never come from the West. Many top Eastern Roman theologians were far closer to political Islam (the Ottoman sultanate, empire after 1453, and caliphate after 1517) than the Frankish supremacy over Vatican and Western Europe that they considered as initiation to the Antichrist's Age. Cosmas the Aetolian, after many centuries of Ottoman rule over the Greek speaking Christian Orthodox populations of the former Eastern Roman Empire, found the clamor to attack the Pope as the ultimate reason for the … long awaited Antichrist, saying (or foretelling) that we should blame the Pope for the Antichrist's rise. The Sheikhulislam (religious head of Islam at the times of the Ottoman Caliphate) was not a matter of concern for that Orthodox monk of the late 18th century.
All this is to briefly say that Benedictus XVI quoted a declared enemy of Catholic Christianity.
Interesting!
Whether the present Pope accepts the Eastern Roman Emperor's attacks against Islam has little importance. If we refer to News Agencies, the Pope insisted on that he was quoting; he was however quoting the emperor whom previous occupants of the Holy See did their best to destroy, an emperor whose people preferred Islam to Catholic Christianity.
Yes, a quote is a quote. And if it is to become unacceptable to quote someone in history, then we are in a sorry state.
We should in our turn ask why Benedictus XVI did not quote the extremely rich Catholic anti-Islamic literature that antedates the Eastern Roman Emperor. Probably, his choice was based on the consideration that even those who rejected Catholic Christianity and preferred political Islam, had negative opinion of Prophet Muhammad. This does not add much, and can hardly be taken as insult, It is well known that negative opinion of the 'other' was common place among all.
We must be able to criticize. The world will stagnate without critical thought.
Islamic reaction against the Pope bears witness to Absolute Ignorance of Islam
I can only agree.
What matters in 2006 is whether a negative opinion can be taken as an insult. If we reached this level, then communication has ended, this is what many of my coreligionists seem to forget; every one is entitled to a negative opinion of Muhammad, the Coran, Islam in its entirety, God Himself. Muslims should always remember that the Supreme Sentence within the Coran is
- There is no Compulsion in Religion.
Yes, but wasn't this verse abrogated? As I understand it, it was.
As Muslim, I do not believe that Benedictus XVI has to apologize because I believe he is not obliged to accept Islam. If he insulted Islam, communication with Muslims would be difficult, but we cannot afford to take a negative opinion as an insult.
I, too, believe as you do.
Only people with severe complex of inferiority would take a negative opinion as an insult; it seems that the vast complex of inferiority of political representatives of Modern Islam has no limits; for Turks it is due to a false interpretation of History and to deviation from the political ideology initiated by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. For Egyptians and others, it is due to terrible long centuries of French and/or English Cultural, Economic, Political Colonialism against which they never had the courage to fight. The altered face of the so-called Arabic speaking peoples, their distorted cultural and historical identity, their lack of interest to assess their – absolutely non-Arabic – national identity (Coptic for Egyptians, Berberic for Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, Moroccans and Mauritanians, and Aramaic for Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, Jordanians, Palestinians and others), and their false Islam are the reasons of this complex of inferiority.
It would seem to me that modern-day Muslims in general suffer from a superiority complex which manifests itself as an inferiority complex!
The first thing all critics of Benedictus XVI should bring in mind is the extent to which they represent Islam, the definite lack of knowledge of Islam, their miserable misinterpretation of a religion that has truly no followers anymore. These screaming and inane people should ask themselves to what extent they, and the execrable and totalitarian societies and countries they represent, would be have been accepted by top Muslim philosophers, if they had been back to life.
Yes, it would be very interesting to know how Islam's top-notch philosophers would have reacted to the recent flare-ups of passion.
Ruling these states where Islam became a religion limited to few acts of practice and lack of basic thought, representing these societies where the hatred of the better reigns in all forms of the daily life, and daring to attack a scholar who was elected Pope are all contradictory. Trivial politicians should first correct inaccuracies and inconsistencies in their own countries before attacking others. Whatever Benedictus XVI said, what matters is how many Muslim beggars enter filthy (with dirty gallabiyas tope up and with black coloured foot – since they a re barefoot) in the mosques to pray and ask money from the people around.
Your words are music to my ears! Would that there were more people like you in the Muslim world!
When outside your mosques there are hills of trash tore up by rubbish eaters, you have nothing to defend. When in your schools your schoolboys do not study a single page of original text of Ibn Sina, Mohyieldin Ibn al Arabi, Maqrizi, Tabari, and Ibn Rushd, you have no Islam to defend.
Yes, we can all gain from putting our own house in order first. This is true for all mankind.
When you do not know the most important Islamic monuments beyond the borders of your country, and when you need Western organizations (like the Rotary's) to restore your country's Islamic monuments, you should rather shut up.
Interesting, to say the least!
The only thing Bendictus XVI has to say to his bogus-Islamic critics is that "since there is no compulsion in religion" all the Muslim countries should turn secular, and all those who are ready in these countries to reject Islam must be allowed by law to do so without facing consequences".
They should indeed. Which faith should want an adherent to the faith that is only an adherent because he is forced to be one? What good is that?
When you impose Islam, you destroy Islam; no one would respect a destroyed religion fallen to the hands of ignorant and illiterate sheikhs.
I couldn't agree with you more!
PS: Please forgive my tardiness in responding to your excellent post. For some reason - probably because it was so long - it never came through to my desktop. I picked it up only when, by chance, I logged into Blogger, and noticed it as an unmoderated comment.
I would like to share this with you all. This was brought to my attention by my friend Always On Watch. Here it is, in all its glory: A List of the Things Muhammad Brought!
Enjoy!
Mark said:
I would like to share this with you all. This was brought to my attention by my friend Always On Watch. Here it is, in all its glory: A List of the Things Muhammad Brought!
I read the "List of the Good Things Muhammad Brought." This is a wonderful piece and I encourage everyone to read it. You will find the link in the comment section of Mark's post, "This is no way to win a war...." which he posted on September 27. This wonderful essay by Yashiko Sagamori is a dagger in the heart of the Islamic fascists. It is irrefutable evidence that the Muslims are completely disingenuous flim-flam artists who will do anything to prevent the awful truth of the Islamic 'religion' from being told.
I have posted at least one comment since my first, but damn' Blogger doesn't seem to have sent them through.
I find it a bit awkward with the moderation turned on, because I am not sure what happens to posts. Blogger displayed a message that one of my comments had been saved for review by Mark, but not the other.
I am quite sure that Mark would have let them through, so it must be Blogger I suppose...
Mark, I really do understand why you have turned on the moderation, but I do find it a little disconcerting! Any chance you may review this situation?
Rockmother:
I have posted at least one comment since my first, but damn' Blogger doesn't seem to have sent them through.
I have received only ONE comment since. I agree that Blogger can sometimes be erratic. All comments are usually sent by email to my desktop. But it has transpired recently that a few have got trapped on the Web, awaiting my moderation. I can't quite understand why.
I find it a bit awkward with the moderation turned on, because I am not sure what happens to posts. Blogger displayed a message that one of my comments had been saved for review by Mark, but not the other.
I can understand why you might find it less satisfactory with moderation turned on; but from my point of view, it is actually far better. This way I can intercept vicious, abusive, insulting, and trashy comments. It also enables me to filter people coming onto the site simply to harass the people commenting here. So we all benefit by this. Please bear with it a little while longer; I think you'll get used to it. It's all a little new to you at the moment.
I am quite sure that Mark would have let them through, so it must be Blogger I suppose...
Of course I would. I have actually rejected very, very few comments. I reject them only when I feel I have to do so.
Mark, I really do understand why you have turned on the moderation, but I do find it a little disconcerting! Any chance you may review this situation?
I'm so sorry you find it disconcerting. But as I have already said, I think you'll get used to it; and I really think, now, that the comments are qualitatively better as a result of comment moderation being turned on. It makes people think harder before they post.
JudahQ:
Thank you for your superb comment. I can always count on you to be very knowledgable on matters of Christian theology, as I can count on USIP and Always, too. You are all so well-versed in these matters.
Paracelsus:
I am sorry, but it seems that I have unintentionally ignored you. Please forgive me. This has been an oversight on my part.
I join the chorus of applause for your insightful and inspirational post.
Thank you so much for the compliment. I greatly appreciate it.
The time WILL come when we shall face the problems head on. Then we shall see more clearly the direction of the fate of Humanity. Until then I still say nils desperandum.
I do hope you're right. Our politicians will have to grow a backbone first, though!
May protection and blessings be with you and us all, as we soon approach our Christmas time.
Yes indeed! I wonder if the Muslim world will send the Christian West 'goodwill wishes' by way of reciprocation? I wonder, for example, if the King of Saudi Arabia, the Keeper of the Two Holy Mosques, will find it within himself to do this? Now that would be something, wouldn't it?
I'd like to share this video with you. It was kindly brought to my attention by my friend, Always On Watch. The video is a talk given by Brigitte Gabriel. The video is entitled Where are the moderate Muslims? (You know, the ones that Bush and Blair have constantly been reminding us of for the past five years!)
Mussolini:
Not even one christmas card from a taqiyyah-spewing imam will reach the White House.
No, of course not. Because they don't understand the concept of goodwill to the infidel, that's why. When all they want to do is kill the infidel, and make him submit to their god, then how can we expect Christmas cards?
EVERYONE should watch the short film clip featuring Brigitte Gabriel. The link is found above in one of Mark's comments. You will hear 'the straight stuff' from someone who clearly knows and can clearly articulate the facts.
Blogger has become even more temperamental than usual since the promotion of "Beta Blogger."
Copy before hitting preview or publish! If word verification doesn't appear, cut the text and try again, by either refreshing or reloading the site. After publishing, verify that the comment has indeed appeared. Ugh!
USIP:
EVERYONE should watch the short film clip featuring Brigitte Gabriel
It's excellent. Truly excellent!
Always:
I haven't started even using the "Beta" version yet! But it's still temperamental.
Bubba's Pravda:
Western society has two choices. Vanquish, or be vanquished.
EXACTLY! It doesn't come plainer than that!
Mark.
First Class Grade A1 Excellent post.
When are we going to hear something like it from a politician?
I only discovered you today. I'll be back.
I made my lifetime first ever blog post today. I'm still a bag of nerves about it Check me out. It's really only half of all I have to say, the other half's coming next week - still a lot to do for it.
http://gandalf-reconquista.blogspot.com/
Mark,
I'm not using Beta either. But I suspect that Blogger is putting more effort toward Beta and less toward us regular folks.
Mark and Always...,
I am using Beta and I love it. Just my two cents....
Bubba's Pravda
bubbaspravda.blogspot.com
Sir Henry:
Mark.
First Class Grade A1 Excellent post.
Thank you so much!
When are we going to hear something like it from a politician?
You tell me!
I only discovered you today. I'll be back.
Come back SOON!
I made my lifetime first ever blog post today. I'm still a bag of nerves about it Check me out. It's really only half of all I have to say, the other half's coming next week - still a lot to do for it.
Relax! Your blog is great!
RECONQUISTA
Bubba:
What's the difference?
Sir Henry, Great to have you join us to comment on Mark's ever superb posts. He is really excellent and we welcome your contributions. Many thanks. You are doing just fine.
There is no more republish wait, which was becoming quite lengthy. Publishing is immediate. The ability to move page items around by drag and drop is awesome. I prefer the ease of customization over the old version. For the technically challenged, it is much more user friendly.
That's it in a nutshell.
Mark
Thanks.
Come back soon?
When I switch on I have my daily round:
Western Resistance
Gates of Vienna
Jihad Watch
Up Pompeii
Religion of Peace
and the two new ones from today onwards:
A new Dark age is dawning
Klein Verzet
And a heap of others that I call in on now and again, in-between doing my own stuff.The post of yours I read today did it for me just fine. Put you on my daily round.
We all have to hang together in this because if we don't then Islam will surely hang us all separately. I think it's going to get real bloody on our streets before it's over. And if WE don't get it sorted, then our kids will have it facing them. Wonder what they'll think of us if that happens?
Bubba:
From what you say, I shall have to switch over very soon.
Always On Watch has kindly alerted me to two more great videos. I'd like to share them with you. HERE they are. They won't take much of your time.
Oh God! All this appeasement of Muslims! It's enough to make one's hair curl!
With thanks to Brooke and Always On Watch for this excellent video about Palaeologos' words of wisdom: Putting It Back Into Context!
Well worth your time to watch this video. It's short, but very informative.
Sir Henry:
We all have to hang together in this because if we don't then Islam will surely hang us all separately. I think it's going to get real bloody on our streets before it's over. And if WE don't get it sorted, then our kids will have it facing them. Wonder what they'll think of us if that happens?
I agree with you. The limp-wristed politicians will only be able to keep it under control for so long. Then all hell will break loose.
Indeed, we must all hang together. Solidarity is EVERYTHING. Our kids won't thank us at all for allowing them to slip into bondage.
Sir Henry:
I notice that Klein Verzet is a Dutch website. Do you speak Dutch?
Has the QUEEN turned DHIMMI? Please read this: Queen sanctions first ever Muslim prayer room!
First we have the President of the US of A sending "goodwill wishes" to the Ummah. Now we have the Queen of England, the Head of the Church of England, sanctioning a prayer room for Muslims! What next?
Mark,
I've recommended that "Context" video to the students in my world history class. We're studying the history of the Middle East right now. Perfect timing!
The Queen donned a hijab? Submission to Allah?
Oh for god's sake, the queen too? God save the queen, she ain't no human being....the sex pistols were absolutely correct.
Always:
The Queen donned a hijab? Submission to Allah?
Yes, it damn well looks like it, doesn't it?
Steve:
Oh for god's sake, the queen too? God save the queen, she ain't no human being....the sex pistols were absolutely correct.
I don't know a damn thing about the 'Sex Pistols'; but what I do know is this: The Queen has taken one BIG step backward toward DHIMMITUDE!
Now that the Queen, the Head of the Church of England, has allowed a prayer room for believers in the moon god, how long will it be before the Pope sanctions such a move for the Vatican?
How disgusting!
Even though I am not one of her subjects, I have had enormous respect for Queen Elizabeth over the years. She has ruled with dignity and strength and has shown remarkable wisdom and long-suffering in the face of the reprehensible behavior of her children. She has been a steadfast Head of the Church of England, in fact, exemplary in this regard. In light of all of this, it would appear that she has taken leave of her senses to allow a Muslim prayer room in the palace. This is an ominous sign for the future, especially since Charles is an utter and complete naive fool, an idiot of the first order who is without any common sense. This traitorous fool wants to betray the Christian Church and become the Defender of Faith, instead of Defender of the Faith when he ascends the throne -- God forbid such a horrible thing. It is imperative that this madness in the British Royal Family be stopped before they give everything that is good and uplifting and wonderful of the British civilization to the desert barbarians who want to take civilized people back to the seventh century. God save Western Civilization and God save His Holy Church. And yes, of course, God save the Queen, but deliver her from this insane and dangerous blindness, which if pursued will only lead to the destruction of everything that we have accomplished in 14 centuries.
Oh yes, and I forgot to add that the prayer room in the palace is to honor the moon god, who the prophet chose from among a gaggle of pagan deities to justify his barbaric exploits.
On a more practical level Bush should have said nothing. Did he feel similarly compelled to make a Yom Kippur speech? Does the President comment about Hindu festivals or May Day?
Sadly, most of us miss the point here. The problem is not Islam it is the West. We refuse to look at the realities of Islam and define it within our own religion. Moreover, we have a cadre of far left Islamonazi enablers spinning every aspect of unspeakable behavior.
It is time to hold the far left accountable. Would we accept this behavior around the world from any other group. Terrorism is not an alternative lifestyle.
Beakerkin:
On a more practical level Bush should have said nothing. Did he feel similarly compelled to make a Yom Kippur speech? Does the President comment about Hindu festivals or May Day?
I agree with you totally. First of all, the 'goodwill wishes' are never reciprocated. And further, as you rightly point out, I am not aware that the same is done for adherents of other faiths. Christianity should take prime position, because the West is still predominantly Christian, and it is based on Judeo-Christian values. But having said that, if one is going to indulge Muslims in this manner, then all others should be indulged equally.
Sadly, most of us miss the point here. The problem is not Islam it is the West. We refuse to look at the realities of Islam and define it within our own religion. Moreover, we have a cadre of far left Islamonazi enablers spinning every aspect of unspeakable behavior.
I take your point, but I don't think it is as simple as that. Islam is the problem, because it is so pushy. But I agree with the basic premise of your point.
It is time to hold the far left accountable. Would we accept this behavior around the world from any other group. Terrorism is not an alternative lifestyle.
Perfectly stated!
Rockmother:
I still haven't heard your explanation as to why you think that Christianity is characterized by "idolatry", "polytheism" and "excess". I would love to read why you think this is so.
USIP:
I actually think that the Muslim who requested the special prayer room from the Queen was rather sassy to ask for it, especially in view of the fact that the Queen is the Head of the Church of England. Imagine asking the King of Saudi Arabia, the Keeper of the Two Holy Mosques, for a special Christian prayer room!
Beak is right: On a more practical level Bush should have said nothing. Did he feel similarly compelled to make a Yom Kippur speech? Does the President comment about Hindu festivals or May Day?
I'm sick of GWB's sucking-up to Muslims. It smacks of fear and/or appeasement. Weakness!
Always:
I'm sick of GWB's sucking-up to Muslims. It smacks of fear and/or appeasement. Weakness!
I'm sick of it, too. But Muslims thrive on being sucked up to! I noticed that when I worked in the Middle East. The people who got on there the best were the ones that could be the most obsequious! Ugh!
Sucking up to the Muslims as GWB is doing is actually rather insulting to people of other faiths.
Mark:
Wow! 78 comments and rising! Shame Blogger isn't easier to cope with...
I still haven't heard your explanation as to why you think that Christianity is characterized by "idolatry", "polytheism" and "excess". I would love to read why you think this is so.
Well, I did post on this a couple of days ago. (Must have been the one that got lost.)
Well, there doesn't seem to be much hope for either the Protestant Churches or the Church of England now that Her Majesty has given in. We can't hope much from the Heir Apparent, either. He has lost it years ago.
So that leaves the Roman Catholic Church.
I could waste a lot of people's time describing in detail what I have seen in the last couple of weeks in Catholic Churches. No one can convince me that people's behaviour was other than idolatry. Polytheism? Nothing to do with the Trinity. I understand this concept very well. But the Catholic Church seems to have hit upon a fine way to feed human nature's need to worship many gods - the saints. I am not saying that Catholic theology is polytheistic, but its actual material manifestation most certainly is! And you simply have to watch people bowing down to saints and the relics of saints to admit this.
Excess: yes yes yes. Disgusting excess! I think you say that decoration in churches is to the glory of God. Fair enough, but Jesus surely would have said leave the gilding until poverty has been eradicated. He also would not have approved of the Inquisition, the forcible conversion of tens of thousands of Jews on pain of death and torture and the disgusting restrictions on the occupations of the Jews in their midst to two professions: money-lending and medicine.
I could go on...
By the way: on a recent "balanced panel discussion" recently televised, refutation of the excesses of the Inquisition was greeted with enthusiasm by the muslim on the panel.
Jesus was a good Jew. Many many Christians down the centuries have been very fine people indeed. And still are.
But please don't tell me that the many shames in Christian history are a myth. They are not. Though it certainly fits the purpose of the muslims to argue so. Particularly when the outrages were perpetrated against the Jewish people.
Again: never since recent years have I been so comfortable in my atheism. My fight is entirely unfettered.
Rockmother:
You might be interested in this, kindly supplied by JudahQ: Flew Abandons Atheism
Rockmother, please clarify your thinkiing. I can't follow your line of argument. Whose side are you on?
You might be interested in this, kindly supplied by JudahQ: Flew Abandons Atheism
Rockmother, please clarify your thinkiing. I can't follow your line of argument. Whose side are you on?
This is all getting very heated and perhaps I should never have started all of this. It's hard to conduct a rational argument in this format and all to easy for misunderstandings to arise.
I am not disturbed by Flew's evolution. I am not going to be tiresome by sending link after link which "plays for the other side".
Atheists and agnostics are not a "church" and atheism is not a belief. It is a rational response to what one sees and hears. Sometimes, it is an irrational response. It has many roots, intellectual and psychological. Another big mistake that believers in God and members of organised religions make is that atheists have a problem with morals. Where do they get them from? How do they know what is right and what is wrong? Well, some do and some don't - just like any other category. Morality comes from deeper levels than a belief system grafted on by Church or State. Many years ago we had a family friend who was an agnostic. He was much loved in his neighborhood by the poor and deprived because of his untiring help and work on their behalf and his fundamental goodness which shone through. His profession? A parish priest in the Church of England
I don't need to believe in God to recognise evil. Because I had no religious baggage, I was one of the very first people in my wide acqaintance who realised what was going on with islam and also the true nature of the problem.
But there is evil and there is evil. There is the evil perpetrated by usually good people when they "pass by on the other side"; there is the evil perpetrated by large organisations including governments and religions when they pervert the teachings of the wise for their own purpose, manipulate populations and exploit ignorance. There is the evil perpetrated by me (and probably you, and probably most of the good people who post here) when we are needlessly and wantonly cruel, or when we "can't be bothered" to do a good deed when we know we should, when we find all sorts of excuses for not making the effort. Being good is hard work.
But then there is another evil. The evil of the death cult. The evil that embraces cruelty and death with fanatical joy. Such is nazism. Such is islam.
Whose side am I on? Simply on the side that opposes this.
You have a fine and valuable record in this opposition. With your superb clarity and rational writings you do a great service. Because I cannot embrace what seems to me (and many others) a belief system which certainly has many skeletons in the cupboard does not mean that I am a traitor. I have taken direct and risky action in my opposition to islam. Not as direct nor as brave as the actions of Israel, a country standing very much in the position of Churchill's Britain against nazism at the beginning of the First War against Fascism. But then the Jewish people have always been on the front line, alone, haven't they? The shameful history of the Church is that they demonised the Jews for their own purpose, much as the capitalist West demonised the Communists and used the bloody, bloody muslims, armed them and encouraged them, again for their own ill-thought out purposes - and now we reap the whirlwind. I am frustrated when we don't recognise these great mistakes. Only then can we move forward and gather for the fight.
Now I suppose I shall be accused of being a lefty atheist. I am not. I fully support capitalism. But I am rational enough to see where it has done great wrongs and made great mistakes, many of which we are all now paying for in blood...
Rockmother:
Thank you for this very balanced, reasoned comment. I appreciate the clarification. I am sure the others posting here will, too.
This is all getting very heated and perhaps I should never have started all of this. It's hard to conduct a rational argument in this format and all to easy for misunderstandings to arise.
I hope you don't think I am heated. Not at all! Each to his own, that's what I say.
I am not disturbed by Flew's evolution. I am not going to be tiresome by sending link after link which "plays for the other side".
I didn't think you would be. I have come to know you as a committed atheist. You seem to be very confident of your relatively new identity.
Atheists and agnostics are not a "church" and atheism is not a belief. It is a rational response to what one sees and hears. Sometimes, it is an irrational response. It has many roots, intellectual and psychological. Another big mistake that believers in God and members of organised religions make is that atheists have a problem with morals. Where do they get them from? How do they know what is right and what is wrong? Well, some do and some don't - just like any other category. Morality comes from deeper levels than a belief system grafted on by Church or State.
Yes, I am sure they are many and varied. Of course, 'humanism' will give one morals, too. Many people who call themselves Christian won't do another a good turn, and some can be incredibly hard with their fellow man.
Many years ago we had a family friend who was an agnostic. He was much loved in his neighborhood by the poor and deprived because of his untiring help and work on their behalf and his fundamental goodness which shone through. His profession? A parish priest in the Church of England
An agnostic parish priest? Wow! Surely he was in the wrong profession!
I don't need to believe in God to recognise evil. Because I had no religious baggage, I was one of the very first people in my wide acqaintance who realised what was going on with islam and also the true nature of the problem.
Distance can often lend perspective.
But there is evil and there is evil. There is the evil perpetrated by usually good people when they "pass by on the other side"; there is the evil perpetrated by large organisations including governments and religions when they pervert the teachings of the wise for their own purpose, manipulate populations and exploit ignorance. There is the evil perpetrated by me (and probably you, and probably most of the good people who post here) when we are needlessly and wantonly cruel, or when we "can't be bothered" to do a good deed when we know we should, when we find all sorts of excuses for not making the effort. Being good is hard work.
Yes, being good is hard work. It is reserved for the privileged few, it seems.
But then there is another evil. The evil of the death cult. The evil that embraces cruelty and death with fanatical joy. Such is nazism. Such is islam.
Yes, some of the things we have seen in recent years alone show how brutal fanatical Muslims can be. They talk of chopping people's heads off as they they were talking about buying a loaf of bread at the local bakery!
Whose side am I on? Simply on the side that opposes this.
That's a good side to be on.
You have a fine and valuable record in this opposition. With your superb clarity and rational writings you do a great service.
Thank you, Rockmother.
Because I cannot embrace what seems to me (and many others) a belief system which certainly has many skeletons in the cupboard does not mean that I am a traitor.
You don't have to embrace it, either. We are all free to believe that which we wish to believe. And please don't think that I consider you a traitor. My goodness! There are times when I have periods of doubt. That's half the problem with Muslims: They have no doubt. They are so certain they hold the truth. It's not natural. How can one be that certain about something that cannot be proven?
I personally think it is healthy to harbour a modicum of doubt. It shows that one is able to think for oneself; otherwise, it all turns into blind faith.
I have taken direct and risky action in my opposition to islam. Not as direct nor as brave as the actions of Israel, a country standing very much in the position of Churchill's Britain against nazism at the beginning of the First War against Fascism. But then the Jewish people have always been on the front line, alone, haven't they? The shameful history of the Church is that they demonised the Jews for their own purpose, much as the capitalist West demonised the Communists and used the bloody, bloody muslims, armed them and encouraged them, again for their own ill-thought out purposes - and now we reap the whirlwind. I am frustrated when we don't recognise these great mistakes. Only then can we move forward and gather for the fight.
Now I suppose I shall be accused of being a lefty atheist. I am not. I fully support capitalism. But I am rational enough to see where it has done great wrongs and made great mistakes, many of which we are all now paying for in blood...
Capitalism has made many, many mistakes. And continues to make many, too. Look at what is happening in the Middle East! Half of our problems with Islam come from people operating in the capitalist system who have no understanding either of principle or greed. After all is said and done, however, it's the best system we have. But that, of course, doesn't make it perfect.
Thank you too, Mark.
You are a good man - and a fine Christian.
May all that is good bless you and help you.
Rockmother:
Thank you so much. Indeed, I'm flattered!
Mark:
Pork for dinner again tonight!
And West Country cider...
Oh dear...
Rockmother:
Pork and cider? How wonderful! I just wish I were there to enjoy the succulent pork and the tasty, inebriating cider! Maybe one day, who knows?
Rockmother:
Always said: I don't think less of you because you don't believe in God.
Ditto.
When will the current US administration 'come to' and realize that our citizens want us to WIN the war? This means we have to get tough, start eliminating terrorists at the rate of several thousand each week, stop this disgusting groveling ala entertaining Muslims at the White House for Ramadan and cease and desist from making the kind of absurd, untrue statements about the alleged contributions of Muslims to the West that the President is making. Also we have to stop putting our hopes for 'winning' this 'war on terror' on so called moderate Muslims. It is not a coincidence that only western politicians talk about moderate Muslims, Muslims do not. Even if these elusive 'moderates' do exist, they apparently have no effect whatsoever on the savages -- so what good are they, IF THEY EXIST, which has never been proven or demonstrated. We are governed by total idiots. It would be so uplifting to take ALL politicians to the steps of the Capitol and send them on to their greater reward. Perhaps they could get in on the virgins and the little boys.... DISGUSTINGLY WEAK AND UNWORTHY!
This post, and it's subsequent commentaries, is simply EXCEPTIONAL. It is hard-hitting, and it is truthful. What you have said needs to have been said, and more to the point, needs to be read and understood by citizens who regard themselves as responsible. As I said in my own recent post, the American people elected our current politicians, so I think it is the American people themselves who must take responsibility for what is, or more to the point, IS NOT happening in the war on terror.
Now the question is, how do we communicate this to the prevailing political structure and/or the follow-on generation? I fear that there are no statesmen waiting in the wings for us. The future is bleak.
Semper Fi
Mustang:
Welcome, my friend!
This post, and it's subsequent commentaries, is simply EXCEPTIONAL. It is hard-hitting, and it is truthful. What you have said needs to have been said, and more to the point, needs to be read and understood by citizens who regard themselves as responsible.
Thank you! I appreciate your praise.
As I said in my own recent post, the American people elected our current politicians, so I think it is the American people themselves who must take responsibility for what is, or more to the point, IS NOT happening in the war on terror.
I couldn't agree more!
Now the question is, how do we communicate this to the prevailing political structure and/or the follow-on generation? I fear that there are no statesmen waiting in the wings for us. The future is bleak.
Where are the statesmen? Each generation used to kick up a few. Thse days, none are on the horizon.
Semper Fi
Exactly: Semper fidelus!
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