Mark, This is absolutely the funniest annimated cartoon I have seen in at least twenty years. I hope all of your visitors will share it with everyone they know.
Yes, raw and funny is how the American people like it these days. But I don't think Christians should be proliferating this kind of thing. First of all, the humor is rude, crude and socially unacceptable. Do you pray to God with that mouth?
"With [the tongue] we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?"
More importantly, the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks." Do you believe, then, that Islam and Christianity are to be equated (as Karen Armstrong would argue) and that Christianity sucks, too? If so, maybe you should take a look at the origins of both religions and see how differently each was spread: one by preaching and the other by the sword.
So let's be more careful about buying into the modern zeitgeist just for the sake of a good laugh.
Thank you, but I need no lessons from you on taste. Thank you again!
I have a sense of humour. You apparently don't. You're too holy, or some such thing.
I thought that it was hilarious. But then I am no narrow-minded bigot. Rather, I am a human being with frailties. Just like you are!
You might think you're holier than everyone else; but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that you have the same human faults as us all - just different ones!
For your attention:
I did not use any foul language: I rarely do. I don't have to wash MY mouth out with soap and water. This was someone else speaking, not me.
But there are a few reasons why I did put it up. They are: We need to preserve our freedom of speech and expression, which Muslims are only too ready to take away in a heartbeat. It is also my firm belief that it is better to be able to say things to others and even they are uncomfortable to hear, at least when speaking the truth, than it is to brush it all under the carpet, and let falsehoods reign supreme.
More importantly, the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks.
That's what you understood from it. I understood something else.
I think the message is that Islam sucks. They were trying to show that Jesus can be ridiculed, too; as can every other religion. Muslims were not being singled out.
I'm all for being able to make fun of religion. If a religion is sound, it can stand up to it.
If one cannot ridicule religion, then you end up with a situation akin to that in many Islamic countries. And one can be punished severely if one doesn't toe the Islaamic line. Now that really does suck!
Surely, you wouldn't want that, would you?
My message to you is to lighten up. You sound just a tad too precious to me. Just a little bit holier than everybody else, perhaps?
I am not: I am a mere mortal. But one with a damn good sense of humour.
This film, in my humble opinion, was funny!
Do you believe, then, that Islam and Christianity are to be equated (as Karen Armstrong would argue) and that Christianity sucks, too? If so, maybe you should take a look at the origins of both religions and see how differently each was spread: one by preaching and the other by the sword.
You obviously haven't read any of my writing, otherwise you wouldn't have written what you have about my beliefs and karen Armstong.
Don't need lessons on the origins of boh religions from you, Sir. I write about Islam, and at the same time uphold Christianity. Couldn't do that if I were a greehorn!
Mark: I didn't mean to come off as holier than thou, but, that being said, your ad hominem response doesn't do you credit. I actually do have a sense of humor and your caricature of me as a "holier than thou," "narrow-minded bigot," who doesn't think he has any "human frailties" does make me laugh.
You say the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks" is "what I understood from it." Uh, no, EXPLICIT means "NOT IMPLIED." "Religion sucks" was not something I inexplicably "read into" the cartoon; it's literally what the little sign in the cartoon said. And let me tell you, I am fed up with people using 9/11 and radical Islamist terrorism as a lesson of what they call "the dangers of religion." As if the Pope were issuing fatwas permitting the killing of innocent men, women and children!" Perhaps my sensitivity to this issue made me take the cartoon too seriously.
But, one word of warning. Beware those whose attitude to everything is "lighten up!" People like this would have us remain eternal adolescents, laughing at childish potty humor while our souls are at stake. St. Paul said, "When I was a child a spake as a child, but now that I am a man I have put away childish things." Notice that in our age the best compliment you can give a comic or an author is to say that for them "nothing is sacred," as if this were something to be admired. Listen, I've laughed harder at Seinfeld than anyone, but I try to draw a line. I am repulsed by the whole modern, Seinfeldian worldview, in which NOTHING is sacred and everything, even the suffering of children, is grist for the comic mill. When Seinfeld mocks the movie Schindler's List we are supposed to shake our heads, laugh at his "outrageousness" and tune in next week to see what new sacred cow he will gore. The networks love it. We become laughing, depraved idiots and they rake in the dough. Everybody's happy, eh?
"Freedom of expression" does not require that we Americans abandon our sense of the sacred or that we consider ourselves "uptight" if we cannot giggle at every blasphemy. It means rather, that, when we ARE outraged, we do not censor or demand the death of the person responsible. But if you find that you are losing your ability to be outraged, that you find no joke offensive, then beware, for you are becoming less human.
Thank you for your very thoughtful and erudite response. You obviously think deeply.
Mark: I didn't mean to come off as holier than thou, but, that being said, your ad hominem response doesn't do you credit.
No, you're right. Thank you for calling me up short.
When I read your original comment, it came over as an attack on me. Clearly, I misread your message. Forgive me!
I actually do have a sense of humor and your caricature of me as a "holier than thou," "narrow-minded bigot," who doesn't think he has any "human frailties" does make me laugh.
You know, DLC, when I sit here at my computer, I am blind in a way. All I get are the comments. There is no person or face or body language. Or even tone of voice, actually. Only the bare words. If those words do not convey EXACTLY what is meant, they can so easily be misread. I obviously misread yours.
You say the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks" is "what I understood from it." Uh, no, EXPLICIT means "NOT IMPLIED." "Religion sucks" was not something I inexplicably "read into" the cartoon; it's literally what the little sign in the cartoon said.
I have viewed the video again, and I saw the little sign in the cartoon. I missed this in the original viewing. I still think that the thrust of the video was essentially that Islam sucks, though, rather than religion in its entirety.
And let me tell you, I am fed up with people using 9/11 and radical Islamist terrorism as a lesson of what they call "the dangers of religion." As if the Pope were issuing fatwas permitting the killing of innocent men, women and children!" Perhaps my sensitivity to this issue made me take the cartoon too seriously.
I agree with you that this can be tiring, to say the least. As far as I am concerned, the basic message of Christianity is one of love, peace, and tolerance. This cannot be said for Islam.
But you must take a few things into consideration here. I am British, not American. Our sense of humour can sometimes be different. But more than this: Americans have a far different relationship to religion than do the bland British. After all, in the US, you have this phenomenon called The Bible Belt. No such thing exists in the UK.
I have noticed that Americans are sometimes prone to going over the top with religion. I find this tiresome. I was raised as a Christian, and I hope I do my best when it comes to living as best as I can, given the hand I was dealt. I try and do my best for others at all times. But I am no religious fanatic. I do not get offended easily when I see someting offensive or in bad taste. If it offends me, then I just look away, for I do not wish to impose my will on others as the Muslims do, since I have lived with Islamic censorship in the Middle East, and I know just how awful it can be. One ends up looking over one's shoulder each and every time one says anything vaguely controversial - and sometimes when one has said nothing controversial at all!
Perhaps it is because of my experiences there that I had such a laugh when I saw this irreverent video. I suppose I said to myself: Yeh, Muslims! Take that!
But I have to admit that I had misgivings about placing it up on my website, since I try hard to maintain a very good tone on it. But you know, DLC, sometimes with this website, things move fast, and one has to make a decision on the hoof so to speak. When one makes such a fast decision, sometimes one's judgement isn't so good as it would be when one is thinking of a blog over several hours.
However, I should add, probably to your dismay, that I would probably show this video again BECAUSE I reserve my right to freedom of expression. The Muslims are trying to take that RIGHT away from me, nay from us all. We must fight this, even if it means showing some videos that would otherwise be rather distasteful under ordinary circumstances. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures!
St. Paul said, "When I was a child a spake as a child, but now that I am a man I have put away childish things." Notice that in our age the best compliment you can give a comic or an author is to say that for them "nothing is sacred," as if this were something to be admired.
Indeed. Nothing does seem to be sacred these days, does it? This, unfortunately, is the way our societies have developed. Poor parenting, poor teaching, poor Church leadership and bad political decisions have all contributed to this deplorable situation.
But I hasten to add: If we cannot find it within ourselves to revere our Christian heritage, then I certainly don't want to be made to revere their Islamic one!
"Freedom of expression" does not require that we Americans abandon our sense of the sacred or that we consider ourselves "uptight" if we cannot giggle at every blasphemy. It means rather, that, when we ARE outraged, we do not censor or demand the death of the person responsible. But if you find that you are losing your ability to be outraged, that you find no joke offensive, then beware, for you are becoming less human.
No, it doesn't necesarily mean that you Americans, nor we Brits for that matter, abandon our sense of the sacred, and "giggle at every balsphemy". But these are very difficult times for freedom of expression, DLC. We must fight to retain these freedoms which have been hard fought for by our ancesters.
I am of the firm belief that freedom of expression is indivisible. We either have it, or we don't. It's as simple as that! There is no halfway house. The only thing that should stop us from saying something, or expressing something some other way, is our sense of decency and good taste. But it should not be the strong arm of the law which stops us, and that is precisely what the Muslims wish to impose on us.
I am not losing my ability to be outraged at all, DLC. I become outraged, it seems, by different things from you, though. Muslims trying to censor me outrages me, not this video.
I hope this has brought some clarity into this situation. I also hope that you will keep looking in on us here to give us your wisdom on what's happening in the world today. You're always welcome on this forum.
Mark: thanks for your gracious response. I agree it is very difficult to get a nuanced sense of a person's thinking online. And I regret that I sometimes fly off the handle at times when it's not warranted (I'm a hotheaded Irishman by descent.) I think we are probably like-minded on most issues.
I was just looking at Pedestrian Infidel and I, too, cringed at the photo of the Pope kissing the Koran, an important reminder of the important role played by you and other anti-jihadist bloggers. I'm glad you're out there providing valuable insight into the very real threat that militant Islam poses to Western Civilization, because we sure aren't hearing the full story from the press!
11 comments:
Funny, huh? Between the Zipperfish cartoon and Beamish's art, I'm all smiles today.
I needed the comic relief, let me tell you.
AOW:
I'm enjoying a lunchtime 'gin and tonic' to celebrate!
Mark, This is absolutely the funniest annimated cartoon I have seen in at least twenty years. I hope all of your visitors will share it with everyone they know.
Us Iconoclastic Patriot:
Yes, it really is funny. It's a little bit on the raw side; but I couldn't resist placing a link to it up there. It was just too funny to ignore.
Yes, raw and funny is how the American people like it these days. But I don't think Christians should be proliferating this kind of thing. First of all, the humor is rude, crude and socially unacceptable. Do you pray to God with that mouth?
"With [the tongue] we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?"
More importantly, the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks." Do you believe, then, that Islam and Christianity are to be equated (as Karen Armstrong would argue) and that Christianity sucks, too? If so, maybe you should take a look at the origins of both religions and see how differently each was spread: one by preaching and the other by the sword.
So let's be more careful about buying into the modern zeitgeist just for the sake of a good laugh.
DlC:
Thank you, but I need no lessons from you on taste. Thank you again!
I have a sense of humour. You apparently don't. You're too holy, or some such thing.
I thought that it was hilarious. But then I am no narrow-minded bigot. Rather, I am a human being with frailties. Just like you are!
You might think you're holier than everyone else; but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that you have the same human faults as us all - just different ones!
For your attention:
I did not use any foul language: I rarely do. I don't have to wash MY mouth out with soap and water. This was someone else speaking, not me.
But there are a few reasons why I did put it up. They are: We need to preserve our freedom of speech and expression, which Muslims are only too ready to take away in a heartbeat. It is also my firm belief that it is better to be able to say things to others and even they are uncomfortable to hear, at least when speaking the truth, than it is to brush it all under the carpet, and let falsehoods reign supreme.
More importantly, the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks.
That's what you understood from it. I understood something else.
I think the message is that Islam sucks. They were trying to show that Jesus can be ridiculed, too; as can every other religion. Muslims were not being singled out.
I'm all for being able to make fun of religion. If a religion is sound, it can stand up to it.
If one cannot ridicule religion, then you end up with a situation akin to that in many Islamic countries. And one can be punished severely if one doesn't toe the Islaamic line. Now that really does suck!
Surely, you wouldn't want that, would you?
My message to you is to lighten up. You sound just a tad too precious to me. Just a little bit holier than everybody else, perhaps?
I am not: I am a mere mortal. But one with a damn good sense of humour.
This film, in my humble opinion, was funny!
Do you believe, then, that Islam and Christianity are to be equated (as Karen Armstrong would argue) and that Christianity sucks, too? If so, maybe you should take a look at the origins of both religions and see how differently each was spread: one by preaching and the other by the sword.
You obviously haven't read any of my writing, otherwise you wouldn't have written what you have about my beliefs and karen Armstong.
Don't need lessons on the origins of boh religions from you, Sir. I write about Islam, and at the same time uphold Christianity. Couldn't do that if I were a greehorn!
DLC:
Just watched that video again. It was hilarious!
Mark: I didn't mean to come off as holier than thou, but, that being said, your ad hominem response doesn't do you credit. I actually do have a sense of humor and your caricature of me as a "holier than thou," "narrow-minded bigot," who doesn't think he has any "human frailties" does make me laugh.
You say the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks" is "what I understood from it." Uh, no, EXPLICIT means "NOT IMPLIED." "Religion sucks" was not something I inexplicably "read into" the cartoon; it's literally what the little sign in the cartoon said. And let me tell you, I am fed up with people using 9/11 and radical Islamist terrorism as a lesson of what they call "the dangers of religion." As if the Pope were issuing fatwas permitting the killing of innocent men, women and children!" Perhaps my sensitivity to this issue made me take the cartoon too seriously.
But, one word of warning. Beware those whose attitude to everything is "lighten up!" People like this would have us remain eternal adolescents, laughing at childish potty humor while our souls are at stake. St. Paul said, "When I was a child a spake as a child, but now that I am a man I have put away childish things." Notice that in our age the best compliment you can give a comic or an author is to say that for them "nothing is sacred," as if this were something to be admired. Listen, I've laughed harder at Seinfeld than anyone, but I try to draw a line. I am repulsed by the whole modern, Seinfeldian worldview, in which NOTHING is sacred and everything, even the suffering of children, is grist for the comic mill. When Seinfeld mocks the movie Schindler's List we are supposed to shake our heads, laugh at his "outrageousness" and tune in next week to see what new sacred cow he will gore. The networks love it. We become laughing, depraved idiots and they rake in the dough. Everybody's happy, eh?
"Freedom of expression" does not require that we Americans abandon our sense of the sacred or that we consider ourselves "uptight" if we cannot giggle at every blasphemy. It means rather, that, when we ARE outraged, we do not censor or demand the death of the person responsible. But if you find that you are losing your ability to be outraged, that you find no joke offensive, then beware, for you are becoming less human.
Thanks for the feedback. -DLC
DLC:
Thank you for your very thoughtful and erudite response. You obviously think deeply.
Mark: I didn't mean to come off as holier than thou, but, that being said, your ad hominem response doesn't do you credit.
No, you're right. Thank you for calling me up short.
When I read your original comment, it came over as an attack on me. Clearly, I misread your message. Forgive me!
I actually do have a sense of humor and your caricature of me as a "holier than thou," "narrow-minded bigot," who doesn't think he has any "human frailties" does make me laugh.
You know, DLC, when I sit here at my computer, I am blind in a way. All I get are the comments. There is no person or face or body language. Or even tone of voice, actually. Only the bare words. If those words do not convey EXACTLY what is meant, they can so easily be misread. I obviously misread yours.
You say the EXPLICIT message here "religion sucks" is "what I understood from it." Uh, no, EXPLICIT means "NOT IMPLIED." "Religion sucks" was not something I inexplicably "read into" the cartoon; it's literally what the little sign in the cartoon said.
I have viewed the video again, and I saw the little sign in the cartoon. I missed this in the original viewing. I still think that the thrust of the video was essentially that Islam sucks, though, rather than religion in its entirety.
And let me tell you, I am fed up with people using 9/11 and radical Islamist terrorism as a lesson of what they call "the dangers of religion." As if the Pope were issuing fatwas permitting the killing of innocent men, women and children!" Perhaps my sensitivity to this issue made me take the cartoon too seriously.
I agree with you that this can be tiring, to say the least. As far as I am concerned, the basic message of Christianity is one of love, peace, and tolerance. This cannot be said for Islam.
But you must take a few things into consideration here. I am British, not American. Our sense of humour can sometimes be different. But more than this: Americans have a far different relationship to religion than do the bland British. After all, in the US, you have this phenomenon called The Bible Belt. No such thing exists in the UK.
I have noticed that Americans are sometimes prone to going over the top with religion. I find this tiresome. I was raised as a Christian, and I hope I do my best when it comes to living as best as I can, given the hand I was dealt. I try and do my best for others at all times. But I am no religious fanatic. I do not get offended easily when I see someting offensive or in bad taste. If it offends me, then I just look away, for I do not wish to impose my will on others as the Muslims do, since I have lived with Islamic censorship in the Middle East, and I know just how awful it can be. One ends up looking over one's shoulder each and every time one says anything vaguely controversial - and sometimes when one has said nothing controversial at all!
Perhaps it is because of my experiences there that I had such a laugh when I saw this irreverent video. I suppose I said to myself: Yeh, Muslims! Take that!
But I have to admit that I had misgivings about placing it up on my website, since I try hard to maintain a very good tone on it. But you know, DLC, sometimes with this website, things move fast, and one has to make a decision on the hoof so to speak. When one makes such a fast decision, sometimes one's judgement isn't so good as it would be when one is thinking of a blog over several hours.
However, I should add, probably to your dismay, that I would probably show this video again BECAUSE I reserve my right to freedom of expression. The Muslims are trying to take that RIGHT away from me, nay from us all. We must fight this, even if it means showing some videos that would otherwise be rather distasteful under ordinary circumstances. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures!
St. Paul said, "When I was a child a spake as a child, but now that I am a man I have put away childish things." Notice that in our age the best compliment you can give a comic or an author is to say that for them "nothing is sacred," as if this were something to be admired.
Indeed. Nothing does seem to be sacred these days, does it? This, unfortunately, is the way our societies have developed. Poor parenting, poor teaching, poor Church leadership and bad political decisions have all contributed to this deplorable situation.
But I hasten to add: If we cannot find it within ourselves to revere our Christian heritage, then I certainly don't want to be made to revere their Islamic one!
"Freedom of expression" does not require that we Americans abandon our sense of the sacred or that we consider ourselves "uptight" if we cannot giggle at every blasphemy. It means rather, that, when we ARE outraged, we do not censor or demand the death of the person responsible. But if you find that you are losing your ability to be outraged, that you find no joke offensive, then beware, for you are becoming less human.
No, it doesn't necesarily mean that you Americans, nor we Brits for that matter, abandon our sense of the sacred, and "giggle at every balsphemy". But these are very difficult times for freedom of expression, DLC. We must fight to retain these freedoms which have been hard fought for by our ancesters.
I am of the firm belief that freedom of expression is indivisible. We either have it, or we don't. It's as simple as that! There is no halfway house. The only thing that should stop us from saying something, or expressing something some other way, is our sense of decency and good taste. But it should not be the strong arm of the law which stops us, and that is precisely what the Muslims wish to impose on us.
I am not losing my ability to be outraged at all, DLC. I become outraged, it seems, by different things from you, though. Muslims trying to censor me outrages me, not this video.
I hope this has brought some clarity into this situation. I also hope that you will keep looking in on us here to give us your wisdom on what's happening in the world today. You're always welcome on this forum.
Mark: thanks for your gracious response. I agree it is very difficult to get a nuanced sense of a person's thinking online. And I regret that I sometimes fly off the handle at times when it's not warranted (I'm a hotheaded Irishman by descent.) I think we are probably like-minded on most issues.
I was just looking at Pedestrian Infidel and I, too, cringed at the photo of the Pope kissing the Koran, an important reminder of the important role played by you and other anti-jihadist bloggers. I'm glad you're out there providing valuable insight into the very real threat that militant Islam poses to Western Civilization, because we sure aren't hearing the full story from the press!
Cheers. --DLC
DLC:
I, too, have some Celtic blood in me, and that means that I can 'effervesce' sometimes, too! :-)
I think we are probably like-minded on most issues.
Yes, funnily enough, we probably are.
Anyway, my friend: All's well that ends well!
Do stop by again sometime soon. It would be great to hear from you.
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